Curse

Elruid · Oct 05, 2006, 08:58 PM // 20:58

The idea in this build is to hex a target with Mark of Rodgort and then just keep them on fire
with the spells listed. While doing this you are also gaining energy with Mind blast as long as you
have decent levels of energy to begin with and Glowing gaze as well as long as the target burns.
Nothing amazing, in fact, it's quite rubbish, so if anyone cares to add anything..

The Skillbar

1 Mark of Rodgort
2 Mind blast {E}
3 Glowing gaze
4 Liquid flame
5 Flare
6 (Resurrection, Optional)
7 (Fire attunement, Optional)
8 (Aura of Restoration, Optional)

The Attributes

Fire magic: 12+3+1 = 16
Energy storage: 12+1 = 13

In 37 seconds I theoretically could use these spells:
Mark of Rodgort(1), Mind blast(10), Glowing gaze(5)
Liquid flame(2) and Flare(12) times

SPELL DETAILS OVER 0-37 SECONDS:

DAMAGE

Mark of Rodgort 1 37*14 = 518
Mind blast 10 10*63 = 630
Glowing gaze 5 5*53 = 265
Liquid flame 2 2*119 = 238
Flare 12 12*57 = 684
= 2335 Damage/37Sec = 63.1 DPS

ENERGY LOSS with Fire attunement

Mark of Rodgort 1 -17 = -17
Mind blast 10 -10*3.5 = -35
Glowing gaze 5 -5*3.5 = -17.5
Liquid flame 2 -2*7 = -14
Flare 12 -12*3.5 = -42
= -125.5 Energy lost

ENERGY LOSS without Fire attunement

Mark of Rodgort 1 -25 = -25
Mind blast 10 -10*5 = -50
Glowing gaze 5 -5*5 = -25
Liquid flame 2 -2*10 = -20
Flare 12 -12*5 = -60
= -205 Energy lost

ENERGY GAIN

Mind blast 10 +10*10 = +100
Glowing gaze 5 +5*8 = +40
= +140 Energy gained

HEALTH GAIN with Aura of Restoration E.Storage_13=367%

Mark of Rodgort 1 25*3.67 = 91.75
Mind blast 10 10*5*3.67 = 183.5
Glowing gaze 5 5*5*3.67 = 91.75
Liquid flame 2 2*10*3.67 = 73.4
Flare 12 12*5*3.67 = 220.2
= 660.6 health gained

Energy regeneration of 4(>>>>) over 37 seconds:
0.333*4*37 = 49.3 energy regenerated

Energy lost/gained in 37 seconds in one cycle:
w/ attunement: -125.5+140+49.3 = +63.8 Energy gained
w/o attunement: -205+140+49.3 = -15.7 Energy lost

DPS: 2335/37: 63.1 for either +63.8 energy gain or -15.7 loss

MARK OF RODGORT Prophecies
25 EN 1 SEC 5 SEC
For 10..30..37 seconds, whenever target foe is struck for fire damage, that foe is set on fire for 1..3..4 seconds.

MIND BLAST ELITE Nightfall
5 EN 1 SEC 2 SEC
Target foe is struck for 15..51..63 fire damage. If you have more Energy than target foe, you gain 1..7..10 Energy.

GLOWING GAZE Nightfall
5 EN 1 SEC 5 SEC
Target foe takes 5..41..53 fire damage. If that foe is set on Fire, you gain 1..7..8 Energy.

LIQUID FLAME Nightfall
10 EN 1 SEC 15 SEC
Target foe is struck for 7..91..119 fire damage.
If that foe is attacking or casting a Spell, nearby foes are also struck for 7..91..119 fire damage.

FLARE Core
5 EN 1 SEC
Send out a flare that strikes target foe for 22..48..57 fire damage if it hits.

FIRE ATTUNEMENT Core
10 EN 2 SEC 45 SEC
For 36..55..62 seconds, you are attuned to Fire. You gain 30% of the Energy cost of the skill each time you use Fire Magic.

AURA OF RESTORATION Core
10 EN 1/4 SEC 5 SEC
For 60 seconds, you are healed for 152..350..417% of the Energy cost each time you cast a Spell.

platnium_playa · Oct 05, 2006, 11:48 PM // 23:48

acually this isnt that bad of a build..

The +
1) nice dps
2) ok enrgy management

The -
3) no res sig
4) 0 defense

If i were to use this build (which i normally would to help my review..i sadly cannot as there is no nightfall yet) i would switch out aura of resto for a defensive skill and rely more on the healer to heal me.

Seeing as toward the end of your chain you would mostly spam flare i would take out fireball and put in a glyph of lesser energy to use with mark of rodgort for energy help.

Last problem i see is where is your REZ SIG!? (or some sort of heal if this will be used in PvE)

The Great Al · Oct 06, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18

i would:

put in fireball for liquid flame

and the biggest part:

switch to /me, put in arcane echo and and just arcane echo mind blast

Elruid · Oct 06, 2006, 10:25 PM // 22:25

I actually had Fireball in the build earlier, but revising the calculations it became apparent that with its 2 second cast time, it was a hindrance. Removing it only cost 0.4 DPS (63.5 vs 63.1) because in its stead you can spam Flare for almost the same damage and have 1 slot free.

Being able to give out damage each second I feel is more important for "pressure" than stopping to cast for 2 seconds especially if the gains in damage are not signifigant to warrant it.

The suggestion of Arcane echoed Mind blast is intriguing, and I will do a sheet for that because I honestly had overlooked it before.

EDIT: Did the math for Arcane echoed Mind blast, however I discovered that it quite drastically
reduces the damage output of this build. On the upside, it is impossible to run into energy problems thus..

Over the course of 37 seconds, spells cast:
Mark of Rodgort(1), Arcane echo(1), Mind blast(9)
Echoed Mind blast(7), Glowing gaze(5), Flare(6) times

Damage done:
Mark of Rodgort 1 37*14 = 518
Arcane echo 1 n/a
Mind blast 9 9*63 = 567
Mind blast 7 7*63 = 441
Glowing gaze 5 5*53 = 265
Flare 6 6*57 = 342
=2133 damage/37sec : 57.6 DPS

Energy lost with Fire attunement: -124
Energy lost without Fire attunement: -175
Energy gained from Mind blasts and Glowing gazes: +200
Energy gained with 4(>>>>) regeneration over 37 seconds: 49.3

As you can see or do the math yourself, with this kind of sequence
whilst the energy gain is unsurpassed, the damage is found wanting.
Mostly due to the 20 second duration of Arcane echo's effect and then its
rather long recharge of 30 seconds before re-use.

Arcane echo Core
15 EN 2 SEC 30 SEC
If you cast a Spell in the next 20 seconds, Arcane Echo is replaced with that Spell for 20 seconds. Arcane Echo ends prematurely if you use a non-Spell skill.

The Great Al · Oct 06, 2006, 11:11 PM // 23:11

interesting...you didn't really take into account any recharge/casting halvings...not sure if tat would matter. also, i would assume mind blast will get nerfed before nightfall, so its nice to know that the flare spamming works.

Elruid · Oct 06, 2006, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Al

interesting...you didn't really take into account any recharge/casting halvings...not sure if tat would matter. also, i would assume mind blast will get nerfed before nightfall, so its nice to know that the flare spamming works.

20/20 Recharge/cast items are totally random in their effect.
I am no mathematician, that simply goes over my ken.
Also if Mind blast gets nerfed, well, yeah.. Flare spamming "works".

EDIT: To answer the post below:

True, as Flare has no recharge timer it benefits none of any such items whereas Mindblast would receive tremendous benefit were its recharge halved occasionally rendering it a 1 second cast 1 second recharge.
But like I wrote, I have no real clue.

The Great Al · Oct 07, 2006, 12:17 AM // 00:17

well, a half recharge helped mind blast more than flare, and i think i would probably prefer that route, because considering you are keeping a single target on fire for 37 seconds, as long as one other teammate is focusing on that target, the thing would be dead regardless of whichever route you take, and this way should have more energy left for the next target

Symbol · Oct 07, 2006, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Your damage calculations don't include aftercast, which means that they're rather optimistic. Flare and mind blast alone will consume all of that 37 sec period.

IMO it's best to keep it simple. Mind blast, immolate, glowing gaze, liquid flame. All 1s casts, all no LOS instant hits, good damage and emanagement.

Elruid · Oct 07, 2006, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

Your damage calculations don't include aftercast, which means that they're rather optimistic. Flare and mind blast alone will consume all of that 37 sec period.

IMO it's best to keep it simple. Mind blast, immolate, glowing gaze, liquid flame. All 1s casts, all no LOS instant hits, good damage and emanagement.

No, my calculations specifically include aftercast of .75 seconds. 3/4 of a second as I have been informed it to be.
In fact, during my earlier runs of the numbers, I had no aftercast figured in and had to do it all over again.

And Immolate is "kinda" useless here, it relies on the burning component to justify itself, but a target on fire from Rodgort already has that and it just becomes an expensive flare with a cooldown.

If Immolate had no 5 second cooldown, it might get used but two 5 second cooldowns mixed in with 2 second one and 15 secs didn't mix well last time I did my sheets, too much overlapping.
Otherwise Immolate would justify its place well, no LOS and 1 sec cast.
Downsides are the loss of the 3 second burn damage and otherwise rather petty damage, 63. Of course the 10 energy cost is totally coverable, and does not present a problem.

All in all, aftercast is figured in and Immolate compares poorly. Only thing it has going for it is the no LOS.

EDIT:

During 37 seconds Mark of Rodgort alone deals 518 damage from constant burning.
However if MoRt is replaced with Immolate, Immolate's full damage is realized.
63 base+3 sec of burning equaling 105 damage, which over 5 casts is 525 total damage.
And even though the damage difference is negligible in comparison, the energy cost
neither grows too disparant, 25 energy vs 50.. or 17 vs 35 with Fire attunement.

However any way I tried to fit in casts between casts to make up the lack
of MoRt, the damage just falls behind because MoRt is passive damage that takes no
time away from other spellcasts. But with Immolate doing its job,
it needs recast every 5 seconds thus taking time away from other spells.

In the end the best I could come with was using Immolate, Mind blast, Glowing gaze, Liquid flame, Flare and Fireball for a quite measly 57.4 DPS compared to the previous values with Mark of Rodgort.

And also, to support this you need to commit almost a full bar to these skills in the latter scenario.
To be honest, it's only one slot more than the original build, but 6/8 still compares poorly to 5/8.
Especially IF considering POSSIBLE PvP application, which I doubt of course because first of all, it would require a shift in the metagame away from HP spam support eles. And that said, I do not feel Mind blast is justification enough to warrant that, the damage might be ranged, but is also taking a team spot away from support. I however am as clueless as ever about this, these are only my own views on the issue.

If Mind blast does not change for worse, maybe people with superior skills can compute the real math if it would finally allow elementalists to be considered as damage dealers, pressure, in PvP.

Phades · Oct 08, 2006, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elruid

During 37 seconds Mark of Rodgort alone deals 518 damage from constant burning.

Casual blessed light will crush your aspirations for constant burning through this hex. Assuming pressure is your goal, having it almost singularly mitigated through one skill is kinda pointless. Since you have to follow one target with the hex constantly to get its worth via the energy cost making healing the pressure easier and being countered by a skill that removes the source of the burning, with the burning and a large portion of the damage at the same time crippling your numbers with each re-application of mark of rodgort. Also, conjure with wand damage looks more attractive on paper than flare does, but it is similarly fragile with regards to mark of rodgort given the skills available.

Then you have to look at what else the build does other than condition and spell based damage. A ritualist can use channeling and communing to put out similar numbers to this and have a parrallel energy engine without using the eliete slot, but has the benefit of not requiring projectiles for the bulk of the damage. Yet, its rare outside of RA where a ritualist of that nature is used.

Refigure your cost and uptime analysis to re-cast mark of rodgort on its recharge and you will have a better picture of what the actual output is like. Its likely that you will find conjure nightmare to look more attractive in the end, considering you can fire it and forget it while applying damage to a different target while waiting out its recharge spreading the damage around more.

Symbol · Oct 08, 2006, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

No, my calculations specifically include aftercast of .75 seconds. 3/4 of a second as I have been informed it to be.
In fact, during my earlier runs of the numbers, I had no aftercast figured in and had to do it all over again.

Your dps calculations are wrong. 10 casts of mindblast + 12 casts of flare = 38.5 seconds. How you're fitting that and 5 more casts of glowing gaze and 2 of liquid flame into 37 secs is beyond me.

Quote:

All in all, aftercast is figured in and Immolate compares poorly. Only thing it has going for it is the no LOS.

Immolate is comparable to MoR. MoR gives you 14 dps of burning. Immolate gives you ~17 dps if cast on recharge. Of course there's a conflict with mind blast which lowers that potential, but that's true of any other spell on the list (esp flare).

Evilsod · Oct 08, 2006, 02:13 PM // 14:13

What is the point of having a build to keep you at full energy? Sure in terms of E-management this build is brilliant... but what exactly do you plan to do with all that spare energy? Theres no use with an ele who stays at 80energy for an entire battle. Wheres the utility? Heal Party? You have that much spare energy make it useful. Or perhaps Ward Against xxxx?

Easy to counter too. You can't keep reapplying Mark of Rodgort if its removed often. Spammable skills? Distracting Shot. Flare really isn't worth it.

Besides... its all about spike now not DPS. Liquid Flame is the best you have. Against casters it would be pretty effective. But against a warrior your losing out.

Elruid · Oct 08, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Yeah I know. The energy gains are unsurpassed, but that's hardly my fault.
It all started just as an experiment anyway. And yeah I said it's mostly rubbish. And yeah, I think Symbol is right, there's no way that math is right anyway. It all did seem rather optimistic.
Did a test with Flare alone on the Isle of the Nameless, I could fit in 22 casts in the 37 second period, I dunno what can I say, don't trust me or my math.
Guess I should refrain from posting any more carp.
One last point, this was just A build, a wreckage of one, is true, but yeah, I know Mark of Rodgort, any elemental damage in fact is no threat.

Symbol · Oct 08, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43

The reason I don't like Mark of Rodgort is that I tried both it and immolate with mind blast during the preview event. The 25E you pay for MoR makes it very easy for you to inadvertently step in an energy hole, at which point you have to resort to mind blasting warriors with a +E set-that's not something you want to happen.

With Mind Blast, Immolate, Glowing Gaze, Liquid Flame you're pretty much constantly casting, and you have plenty of slots free for other stuff. I like going with distortion and gale for utility and self defense.

As for utility in bigger gametypes, there's plenty of potential. You may not necessarily be able to power heal parties like a prodigy ele, but you can certainly belt out expensive casts like Aegis or Extinguish without problems. As far as spike goes, liquid flame is a better spike assist than ice spikes, and it's arguably as good as orb (not as much damage, but it never misses).

For example:

1) Mind Blast
2) Immolate
3) Glowing Gaze
4) Liquid Flame
5) Gale
6) Aegis
7) Extinguish
8) Rez

Seems like it would strike a nice balance between utility and damage.